Valhalla Game Studios | Special Cross-talk Interview with Mr. Leiji Matsumoto (Part 2 of 2) (3 / 4)

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Special Cross-talk Interview with Mr. Leiji Matsumoto (Part 2 of 2) (3 / 4)

June 17,2011

The Roots of Itagaki's Works

I have been told, sensei, that your work "KOSHKA" means "Kitten".

Matsumoto

Koshka is kitten. This is the theme for 2001: A Space Odyssey, "Also sprach Zarathustra". I was planning to use this myself. You know how the start is really impressive? The rest is really blah-blah-blah.

Itagaki

(Laughs) The opening monkey scene.

Matsumoto

Yes, the first scene. I always wanted to use this in an opening or something. And then I saw 2001, and it was used there, and I was shocked. "I didn't make it in time!" It was so close.

Itagaki

Hmm.

Matsumoto

So I was wandering around Kyobashi or thereabouts, and went towards Yurakucho station, and saw a shop named "Koshka". I go inside, and there are these two Russian ladies running the shop.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

So I ask them, "What's 'Koshka' mean?" and they say "a kitten". And I thought, "Oh, I see". It sounds really cute, "Koshka". So right away I came up with "Hi no Mori no Koshka (Koshka of the Forest of Fire)". So there was a meeting there, even though it's just a coincidence. Unless you went into a shop named "Koshka", how would a Japanese person be able to come up with the word "Koshka"?

Itagaki

I see.

Matsumoto

Arcadia, Koshka.

Itagaki

Well if you want to put it that way, I wouldn't have made video games if I didn't see your anime works as a child.

Matsumoto

Ah.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

Well, we all are affected by the works of those who came before us. You touch those things, and that's what gets you started. For me, it was Showa 18, 1943 I guess. I saw a Japanese musical animation in Akashi called "Kumo to Churippu (Clouds and Tulip)".

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

We had a film projector at home. It was my father's hobby. The war was still on, but we watched Mickey Mouse and Popeye.

All

(Laughs)

Matsumoto

A five-year-old kid playing a combustible film, not so safe huh?

Itagaki

Well, given how that five-year-old would jump on a Rikuo, I guess there's nothing you could do (laughs)

Matsumoto

It was at that point. That was when I fell in love with animation, manga movies. As it turns out, on the very same Sunday, Tezuka-san was watching the same movie in the same theater. I was five, young Osamu Tezuka was 15.

Itagaki

Wow.

Matsumoto

We were all, "Oh, so we saw the same movie on the same day." So that was when both of our animation spirits were set on fire. So again, a fated connection, although it's just a coincidence. Also, I was born on the same day, month, and year as Mr. Shotaro Ishimori. So we are the "Self-Purported Three Great Anime Maniacs of Japan". Of course, self-purported. Otherwise, in this Otaku world, you always run into someone claiming to be better.

Itagaki

Indeed (Laughs).

Film Projector

Matsumoto

Then one day, the police came in. Officers from the foreign affairs section came.

Itagaki

Huh?

Matsumoto

They first caught the junk dealer who was selling disposed movie films. Then they went down the chain to find the guys who were making money showing those. So the police were following that lead to bust in to the place where the three of us were. They almost questioned us. They asked "Why do you buy these?" and so we said "It's for research", and then he said "For research..." and his pen stopped.

Itagaki

Huh.

Matsumoto

Oh, research. Well alright then, he said. "Good luck!" and so they left. I was watching from the second floor. He really said "Good luck!" and waved and left. For all three of us. That was it.

Itagaki

Well we're all glad it ended like that.

Matsumoto

But the three of us were all proud, saying "The Self-Purported Three Great Anime Maniacs of Japan narrowly escape justice!"

All

(Giant Laughter)

Matsumoto

So we have a lot of movie equipment from those days. When we did the first preview of the TV series of Atom (Astro Boy) at Yamaha Hall, the film was edited on my projector. Tezuka-san's projector was a great piece of equipment by Mitchell, the one he bought from the junk dealer.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

But it broke down and stopped spinning during the editing. I had a projector, but it was used for a travelling theater - but it works.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

He called for help, so I carried my projector to him in my beat-up car. A refurbished Fairlady built out of a car that was split in half in Hakone. It looked cool, but it actually was shaped differently on the left and right halves, because it was welded together.

Itagaki

Incredible (laughs)

Matsumoto

So I loaded the projector on to that car, and carried it there, and we were able to edit successfully, and the preview went well. So Tezuka-san says "Thanks for last night". But he said "But you know, that projector..." so I ask him, "Did something go wrong?" and he said "All of the perforations*1 got rounded".

*1	Perforations are a series of equidistant holes on the side of a movie film

Itagaki

Hum.

Matsumoto

See, Tezuka-san's projector is a Mitchell, so sprockets are built for thick films from the good old days where people could afford those. My projector was for travelling theaters during the war. So the sprockets push a little harder to accommodate thinner film. Because it pushes harder, the pulldown is more forceful. So the bottom of the perforations were all rounded out.

Itagaki

Uh-oh.

Matsumoto

So that's what happened. I still have that projector.

Matsumoto-sensei, you build many things on your own, right?

Matsumoto

I did make things, and I did a lot of things too. I made a machine that I called the Multiplane multiple-layer filming stand. I got orders to make a movie with this, but I ran out of money after making 15 seconds. No good. So I filmed magazine covers and things like that.

Itagaki

A multi-layer filming stand.

Matsumoto

Yes. See, it's in layers. You focus here, and the glass plates in front get blurred. You can have the ones behind get blurred as well. Gets a sense of depth, you see.

Itagaki

Yes, yes I see.

Matsumoto

Using that, I made black-and-white scenes, or for color, cover pages. I filmed lots of those. Made them an original copy.

Itagaki

I see.

Lodger Days

Matsumoto

That one I did when I was still lodging. I asked for a real photographer, and I made the machine so that each of the layers could be adjusted in a few steps, and so that the camera could go up and down. This machine I still have as well.

Itagaki

It's a precious thing.

Matsumoto

I had to make it sturdy, so that it could hold up a heavy camera. So I went out and bought wood to make sure it was really tough.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

So I'm sawing and hammering away in the middle of the night, and one time the door would slam open, and 5 or 6 other lodgers would come at me, and say "Hey! What are you doing!" So I said, "Oh, sorry, I'm making a filming stand." Then they said "Oh, a filming stand," and even though I said "I'm sorry, I'll stop now" they would say "No, it's fine, we just wanted to know what it was."

All

(Laughs)

Matsumoto

We were just spooked because we heard noises and didn't know what they were. It's alright. Go at it. Don't worry about us. But who can continue after all that?

All

(Giant laughter)

Matsumoto

But that was what it was like back then. "Don't worry about us." "We just wanted to know." "Just do what you like." That's how I made things.

I guess everyone was in support of the young people those days.

Matsumoto

Yes. The adults were nice too. For example, they'd say "Hey, I'll buy you a ramen, let's go eat." I'd say "I'm broke," then they'd say "It's okay, I'll pay for it." So I go along, and after we finish eating, he says "Actually, let's split even." I jumped out of my seat, and almost shouted "I TOLD you I'm BROKE!" Then the shopkeeper came straight to me, and asked "Where are you staying?" I told him where I was lodging, and he said "Ah well, it's alright, just pay me when you get the money". And that was that. "Come by any time, even if you're broke." It ended there.

Itagaki

Very cool.

Matsumoto

So I ended up going to the pawn shop and pawned my 3000 yen watch.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

He lent me 3500 yen. The pawnbroker knows what everything is worth, I expected only 1000 yen for that old thing. But he loaned me 3500 yen. "Don't let this one go" he said. So I said "Please don't call my lodge."

Cool.

Matsumoto

But then, the lady at the lodge calls. Then her grandmother calls, and says to me "Why did you go to the pawn shop?" "Why won't you ask me for money?" "No grown man should be ashamed of being broke," she would yell. Hongo 3-chome was a fantastic place. I got scolded, "Prime minister something, minister something, and professor something, they all had times when they had no money to pay their lodging. So don't be ashamed of being broke."

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

But beware of women, she said.

Itagaki

Haha (Laughs)

Matsumoto

And at that precise moment, my girlfriend walked in with bells all over her body, asking "Hey Matsu, you there?"

Itagaki

(Giant laughter)

Matsumoto

There goes that lecture.

Itagaki

Indeed, there it goes (laughs)

Matsumoto

That was really what it was like back then. Back in our days, those who had gave to those who didn't. Adults were generous towards the young.

Itagaki

A great era.

Matsumoto

Then, there was this other incident where I was totally moved. My room was on the second floor, and on the other side of the street was a very impressive inn, which the Giants team used as their preferred stay. So I often saw giant parties get thrown there. While I was lying hungry.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

And there's a young man there, with a round basket on his back, picking up garbage at the garbage collection spot there.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

Later, I went to the museum in Ueno to see an exhibit, and the same young man was there, with 2 or 3 shiny new fountain pens in his shirt pocket, with some drawing materials, staring intently at the paintings. I was totally moved, "Wow, this guy is serious about his dreams, he would pick up garbage if that's what it takes." When I saw him. I mean, that's dedication, rummaging through garbage to get to art school.

Itagaki

Around when was this?

Matsumoto

Showa 31 or 32 (1956 - 1957). It was still like that then. The sight of the student with the fountain pen in his shirt, standing there with the art material in his hands, it was dignifying. He seemed very resolute.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

I had nothing but respect. So, I studied through many things, and never complained. I couldn't. "Laugh at me now, if you wish" I thought. "Just you wait, tomorrow I'll show you".

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

But... I couldn't stop myself from making that atmosphere come out in everything I draw (laughs)

Itagaki

And I grew up watching those works by sensei, so that's how my video games turn out as well. Yes.

Matsumoto

The other thing I hate is dragging others down.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

You know, an industry holds up because everyone works hard. You should never pull at others' feet. If the industry is doing well, your turn will come.

Itagaki

Yes.

Matsumoto

So you can never slander others, or get in the way of those who work in your industry. This is a basic, general rule. You know, there are those guys who like to drag others down. That's just stupid. It's dragging themselves down. You bring down the industry and you go down with it.

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